Middleburg Interview with “Hedda” Star Nina Hoss

In the new film Hedda, from director Nia DaCosta (Candyman), German actress Nina Hoss (TÁR) plays Eileen Lovborg, former lover of the main character and now professional rival to that person’s new husband. An adaptation of Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen’s 1891 play Hedda Gabler, the movie switches Eileen’s original gender from male to female (he is “Eilert” in the source text), and also moves the action to 1950s England. These changes resonate throughout the narrative, lending additional subtext to what is already a complex drama. I had a chance to speak in person with Hoss at the recent Middleburg Film Festival, and here is that conversation, edited for length and clarity.

Christopher Llewellyn Reed: Prior to making this film, what was your history, if any, with the play Hedda Gabler?

Nina Hoss: I was Hedda for six years, actually. I performed it at the Deutsches Theater in Berlin, one of the big theaters in Germany. Because it’s a repertory system, I didn’t do the play every night. But over the course of six years, I was Hedda and grew with her, let’s say. I knew the material very well. And then when I read the script from Nia, I was so surprised about what this gender reversal did to the whole thing. For me, it was absolutely liberating and so refreshing.

Ibsen is one of the greats, along with Chekhov, and creates a whole construction; his house is airtight, so when you go in there and take one of the main columns away, the whole house might collapse. So I was like, “Oh, what is happening to Hedda if there’s an Eileen and not an Eilert?” And it held strong; it stood upright and it got even deeper.

But there is also the fact that we are actually in the party. In the play, you only ever hear about the party, but you never get to experience it. Nia puts all the characters in that one night where everything unravels and where you also see that Hedda somehow loses control over what she’s doing. And then there’s Eileen trying to figure out how to hold herself, figure out who she actually is now that she returns to social life, all of that. I was never thinking about that with Eilert Lovborg.

CLR: Since you know the play so well, what is your take on what motivates Hedda’s desire to be so manipulative of those around her? Because she’s a difficult character to sympathize with, but she’s interesting.

NH: So the normal way of trying to get close to a character is that you try to find a motive or a background story for why the character does the things that she does. And Hedda is one of the few, if not the only, female character in this classical canon that escapes all sorts of interpretation. That’s what her husband, George Tesman, says at a certain point: “How can I rein her in?” And it’s not possible. She escapes our interpretation and that’s why she’s so dangerous. But that’s also why she’s so fascinating.

For me, it’s like Hamlet for the male actor. Hedda is one of those that will never belong to any of us. But when we are given the task to get into her skin, it’s probably deeply personal of how we see her. And that’s why we will always see a different kind of Hedda that will always surprise us because we will never quite understand. And that’s the beauty of this play.

CLR: Thank you. That’s a really interesting answer. You are significantly taller than Tessa Thompson, who plays Hedda. And in the movie, I think that difference looks probably even greater than it is in real life. It seems like DaCosta is playing up the height differential, which is interesting because of the power dynamic. Hedda is the one in control, but physically you are much taller than she is. Do you think that’s one of the reasons why Nia DeCosta was interested in casting you?

NH: You would have to ask her that question. I never thought about it, but it might well be. We’ve never discussed it, actually. We’ve never discussed the height because I’m also significantly taller than Thea [Eileen’s new lover], played by Imogen Poots. It’s the story of my life. I never think about my height because I’m always taller than everyone on set. 

CLR: Although in the films you’ve done for Christian Petzold, he doesn’t emphasize that, at least not that I’ve seen.

NH: That’s true. And he always finds men who are taller than me or the same height.

CLR: I’ve seen a lot of your films and I’ve never been as struck by it as much as I was in this one.  

NH: Very interesting. Also, when I look at Nicholas Pinnock [who plays Judge Brack] and Tom Bateman [who plays George Tesman], they’re taller than I am. But maybe that’s the male aspect of it. You see, I’m as tall as the man. That’s so interesting. Yeah, I never thought about it, but interesting point.

CLR: Well, you’re also an amazing actress, so of course she wanted to cast you for that. As you mentioned, there is a gender reversal. What do you think that does to the play and to Hedda’s character by making her bisexual?

NH: Right? It’s that you think about all of these women at the helm of the play who are all of a sudden queer, and what does that mean? It adds … tension is maybe not the right word … what is? … it adds another level to Hedda’s complication. She’s very much into having lots of luxurious things around her. She’s not hiding that fact. And then going against the social conventions and openly living a queer life in the ‘50s is another level of commitment, let’s say, and it means something. So that’s what that brings, where you maybe understand her motivation, but you also see a woman in front of you who actually does what she might want to do and who challenges Hedda for her own sake by not saying, but doing something.

Eileen says: “Don’t hide away. Don’t go and go after all these luxurious things. You are in a golden cage and you lead an unhappy life because you are who you are. You can’t hide it, and you’re too strong also to be able to hide it. It’ll overtake you.” And so, in a way, I would say all the conflicts that are there are being heightened by the fact that Eileen is a woman.

Also. I think the whole dynamic of the play shifts, because my connection with George Tesman is all of a sudden another thing. If two men compete for the same job, it’s a different kind of dance than when it’s a woman. And especially with someone like George who thinks: “I’m going to win this job. I’m a man, I know all these men around me.” And then being challenged by a woman in the scene where she’s in this room when she talks to all the men where he goes, “Oh, I might lose this battle.” She’s just brilliant. So all of that is not in the play, and it made things so much more exciting.

CLR: DaCosta also changed the ending of the play. She changed a lot. So speaking of your performance, what I was particularly impressed with is this way in which you go from being stone-cold sober and in control of yourself to then that wonderful scene where you’re not drunk yet, you’re just tipsy, and then after that you get shitfaced. Was the film shot chronologically or did you have to manage this out of order?

NH: Out of order.

CLR: Then how did you manage these different states?

NH: By always referring with Nia, because at the very beginning of our collaboration, I said, “I don’t want her to be pissed all the time because then you don’t listen to her anymore.” And sometimes it’s also interesting that people think you’re drunk, but you don’t act out. But also, of course, being drunk liberates something in you and you lose control. And I think that’s what was necessary for Eileen, for her to not know, to think she’s in control. And you’d watch her and you go, “Oh, my God, this is so bad; what are you doing?”

So I had to kind of make sure that I knew where the height of her drunkenness was and then to always know how to lead up to that. And then how, through an adrenaline kick when she loses the manuscript, she loses the drunkenness. But I just had to always make sure that Nia and I were on the same page here so that we tell the same arc. But it is a tricky beast playing drunk because it’s actually very enjoyable, obviously. But you don’t want to be unbelievable or theatrical in any way. 

CLR: Well, I have a lot of experience with drunkenness. I don’t drink anymore, though. So I know it can also be a profoundly sad thing and not necessarily just flamboyant. It’s very sad to suddenly be very drunk, especially when no one else is.

NH: Exactly. That’s what addiction does. You don’t know when it’s the moment to stop, because you want to drink yourself unconscious, in a way. And I think in some way, Hedda is right when she says, “But you’re so boring and you’re not yourself.” And of course, Eileen becomes a bit more interesting once she’s had a drink because she’s a bit more daring. It’s fascinating to see someone who doesn’t give a damn. And you sometimes need this vehicle of any kind of substance to free yourself from your own control holding the reins together. But the sad thing is when you see someone who loses control completely and makes a fool of themself. 

CLR: So was there any scene in the movie that you most enjoyed doing? I really liked the scene when you’re in the party with the men in that room and you’re still in control, but you’re a little bit loose. Was there a scene that you yourself really enjoyed playing?

NH: That one. I mean, when I read the scene, I was like, “Oh, I can’t wait to do this.” I was so looking forward because there’s a lot going on. You have to handle props a lot. I love that, too. There are a lot of things: I make a martini, I deal with a cigarette. When do you drink? Because you have to do it all again, always in continuity. And that is the technical aspect of the scene.

But there’s also this: I actually had to make these actors listen to me. And that is a great challenge. That wittiness of the text will carry Eileen and she will have the last word in that moment. But then also what is maybe the more interesting point is the moment she turns around, the first thing they say is: “What about the ‘fucking,’ Eileen? Take your kit off!” She’s never in power. And that is the really hurtful thing about that scene. I enjoyed all of that, but I felt the pain of the aftermath. But also I was so happy that Eileen just would throw a glass and wouldn’t give in to all of that. So I thought, “Oh, Nia, thank you for that.” It was very empowering.

CLR: Thank you so much for talking to me.

NH: Thank you.